pay attention to spending cuts defense cuts, talk about entitlements, and how we reform them, and then let's add revenue, but in this works if we have growth and in order to have growth we need more demand in it. right. >> yeah. it's not about substance for them, it's about appealing to a base that says hell no, we won't go no matter what you do on it. and it's about the no-tax pledge, and the tea party wing of the party. my guess is as the economy gets better there will be a little bit more receptivity to it. i don't want to pay more in taxes either butted a the president said this is about math. and if you don't want to look at all of the pieces that is revenue and spending you can't balance the budget. >> jamal: you are the budget guy, what is going to happen on the fiscal cliff. >> unfortunately i think we'll hit the cliff and go over it. >> jamal: really? >> yeah. >> jamal: that's a radical view. >> i think wall street somebody underestimating -- i think john boehner is going to have to let it happen to remain speaker. but that's not to say they won't correct it later, but we're g